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> "The Wine Dark Sea" Official Review Thread *SPOILERS*
How would you rate "The Wine Dark Sea"?
A [ 65 ] ** [53.72%]
B [ 40 ] ** [33.06%]
C [ 11 ] ** [9.09%]
D [ 1 ] ** [0.83%]
F - Stinker! [ 4 ] ** [3.31%]
Total Votes: 121
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Rob_C
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post Dec 5 2007, 07:20 PM
Post #1


Episode 102 - The Wine Dark Sea is now available to registered forum members down in this sneek peek thread!

Post your comments and feedback here and enjoy!

Rob
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TheWriter
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post Dec 5 2007, 10:29 PM
Post #2
Beo Fraser makes his writing & directing debut with a flare that makes you suspect he's done both before! :)

Many of the first episodes to follow a pilot are usually pinned under a microscope, looking for any hint of inferiority following the triumph of the previous release.  The Wine Dark Sea follows the release of Iliad with an excellent script, music, pacing, and a visual style that keeps the viewers on the edge of their seat. (Well, it kept me on the edge of mine, anyway. :) )

Beo also faced the challenge of losing actor Bobby Rice as Ro Nevin, and introducing his replacement, Brandon McConnell.  McConnell plays Ro with a somewhat more muted style than Rice, but not to his detriment.  McConnell delivers an introduction-level performance, but I can see the potential there.

While I miss Rice's distinctive persona, McConnell appears to be a good replacement for him. Nothing against Ro Mk I, but at least McConnell knows how to vary his voice and not speak in monotone 70% of the time.

Once again, Julia Morizawa and Michelle Laurent deliver excellent performances, as their characters spar with each other in great Trek tradition, ie: Spock & McCoy, Odo & Quark, Neelix & Tuvok, Henglaar & anyone else!

On a scale of 1-10, I'd give this episode a 9.8.  The only part I found somewhat confusing was when Gillen and his team were portrayed on their mission while Ro was still giving the briefing in dialogue.  The confusion did not last too long, but at first, I was thinking "What the..?!"

Excellent work, Beo! Looking forward to more of your work!
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moocow1452
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post Dec 6 2007, 08:25 AM
Post #3
Let it be known that at this point, any doubts about Odyssey I had are now alleviated.

That being said, "Wow!" That was incredible. The plot was excellent and well worth the wait. Acting was excellent, love the Stadi/T'Lorra Dynamic. Kind of reminds me of the Torres/Seven relation, without the crazy shippers. Big props to the camera crew, who did an excellent job with the shots, none in particular looked green screened at all.

But, what separates Odyssey from Voyager, is that bad stuff can happen. The cake can not be both had and eaten in this series. There has to be consequences. Sure, they got the Antimatter, repaired the cloak, and are back on their way to find a way home, but a crewmember died, and no amount of Treknobabble could stop it. Their situation is still bleak, and the 44 minute universal answer doesn't exist any more. 

Regarding the new Ro, I was wary at first when I heard of an actor change, but to my relief, it seems like McConnell is a excellent choice for a replacement. I  don't have much to go on for comparisons, but he can play the part, and I'm happy about it. I especially like how he started out with "Ship's Log." Nice touch.

By all means, this is an excellent episode, high quality, and better than most stuff on TV, especially with the Writer's Strike. ****/****
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moocow1452
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post Dec 6 2007, 09:43 AM
Post #4
Double Post, pressed Quote instead of Modify. Sorry!
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post Dec 6 2007, 11:54 AM
Post #5
I just finished 'Wine Dark Sea'. Initially I was a little harsh with Iliad, claiming Voyager done by fans. This episode makes up for it. I enjoy the Stadi/T'Lorra dynamic, although the cat-fighting was a good opportunity for Ro to be the captain and stifle them both. In regards to the new Ro, I liked him very much, different but in a good way. I think he will do well in the coming seasons/stories. John Whiting's understated Morrigu is still always a good watch. I liked the risk speech, it in a way reminds one of Kirk. I will have more to say later on as I digest this episode. Keep up the good work Rob and Company.
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rick20625
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post Dec 6 2007, 12:14 PM
Post #6
Wonderful, wonderful!  

Writer and Mooooo  hit most of the high points for me, so I won't be duplicative.

What I liked best about this episode is that it took characters we thought we knew, and gave them new definition and motivations beyond what we'd seen before, and that gave them more depth.  

I think that Brandon's performance and integration with the cast in this, his first episode in the role of Ro Nevin, ends any worries that anyone had about the cast change.  In fact, he displayed a great range --- and perhaps even his own experience being thrown into a new role parallels that of Ro Nevin being thrown into a new role as well.  Hmm?  I liked how he played Ro with more military precision, too.  Ro has a good look about him when he does so... a bit uncertain, untried... but he's got it in him to succeed.  That came out.  Next question will be... when does he realize he needs to dress and act the part of captain and leader for these people...  and actually sit in the former captain's ready room.  I think he is getting there (like it or not).

I think the scene that I enjoyed the most, was Ro going from being the Science Officer to more of a leadership role, where he was giving confidence to a distraught Ensign Gillen in Engineering.    

I also thought that Matt Montgomery did a great doctor.  And is there foreshadowing there about something a little more in his background that he's not telling us???

T'Lorra and Stadi are gonna be trouble...  but I wonder how Stadi has gotten this far in Starfleet without better personal discipline... perhaps she needs a little dressing down...  I know they're in unfamiliar situations, but they've been together for 6 months or so now...  But I like having the edge... T'Lorra's one you grudingly respect, but like to dislike...

Morrigu and his interaction with his subordinate, Jenaan, was quite good, too.  I love the way John plays Morrigu... obviously a deadly military leader... but with intelligence and compassion, and a true understanding of how politics really works.

Seram and Caecus... just creepy.  I am waiting for something creepily awful to happen there.  Not sure where all the talk about his lineage is going... and how his parents are no longer around.  Sounds a bit too.... contrived.  Hehehe, I guess we'll see.

Graphically, I liked the visuals a lot... I especially liked the warped star tracks flowing over the ship... kinda cool.  I also liked being able to sing along to the theme song.  hehehe.

Overall, this is a very good episode, especially following on the big launch of Odyssey, and the gearing up of Helena Chronicles (not to mention the unanticipated cast change).  Beo deserves accolades for such a good job his first time out.  

Thanks for a fun treat.

--Rick


P.S.  And no, I didn't miss the references to the Cicones or to the Midas Project... but I need to let that simmer for awhile.  Especially with a next episode entitled Lotus Eaters...   time to pull out the old dog-eared copy of the Odyssey for some more clues to where we are going with this story.  I love a good challenge!

P.P.S.  One minor dialog nitpick:  Did I mishear this reference (near the beginning)? Planets are uninhabited, not unmanned.  I'd have to re-listen to be sure.   In any case, very minor issue.




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DrVorzok
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post Dec 6 2007, 12:16 PM
Post #7
Just have to say that Beo and Rob have once again delivered a stellar episode.

Congrats Beo on your Directorial and Writing debut. Definately doesn't seem like your first time.

Brandon did a good job. I look forward to your future performances as Ro. As a critique, I know it was your initial time as Ro. I could see you be somewhat reserved, compared to Bobby. Let yourself come out a bit more, a bit more enthusiasm, and I think it'll help you become Ro even more.

The Music was top notch and John's portrail of Morrigu was again really good. He's becoming the enemy you learn to respect.

Julia and Michelle did a great job with their arguing. It brings back the idea of a good little duel like all of the shows seem to have, just as was noted previously. 

Congrats to everyone on another episode well done, and looking forward eagerly to OD103 and the debut of Helena Chronicles.

And, will there be a Soundtrack release for 102 and HC101? I play my "Iliad" soundtrack all the time.
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TheWriter
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post Dec 6 2007, 12:54 PM
Post #8
Seram and Caecus... just creepy.  I am waiting for something creepily awful to happen there.  Not sure where all the talk about his lineage is going... and how his parents are no longer around.  Sounds a bit too.... contrived.  Hehehe, I guess we'll see.


I think I've got an idea of Caecus's secret!  Whether or not it's true, we'll have to wait and see, unless people want me to post my theory here.    :|
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OrR
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post Dec 6 2007, 02:15 PM
Post #9
Beautiful! :) A great continuation of the story. Odyssey works very well and I love all the characters. The T'Lorra/Stadi conflict was so severe at times that I wondered why Ro didn't do much about it but that probably just goes to show that he doesn't quite have a captain's authority, yet. Oh yeah, I barely noticed that he was played by a new actor... ;) I can't wait to see the next one! :)

John's portrail of Morrigu was again really good. He's becoming the enemy you learn to respect.

Or the enemy who learns to respect you which is kind of a scary thing... When this whole mess is over in seven seasons, Morrigu should get an admiral's post in Starfleet. ;)
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post Dec 6 2007, 06:38 PM
Post #10


I forgot to mention another favorite in my earlier post....  Wozniak!      It was good to see Sam having fun playing his character and getting to be bad-ass with the ship.

Rick

P.S.  Yes, Sam is the same person who manages the servers and forums and things.
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post Dec 6 2007, 06:51 PM
Post #11
I must start out by giving congratulations to our two newcomers;
Beo Frasier, fantastic job on your first writing/directing venture. I hope that you will grace us with more of both in the future.
And Brandon McConnal, you had some very big shoes to fill, taking over for Bobby Rice and you rose to the challenge wonderfully. I'm glad to have Ro Mk. III aboard!
On to the review!

I love how the episode opens with T'lorra and Stadi filling the role of the dueling shipmates. It has strong undercurrents of both of my favorite bickering couples; McCoy vs. Spock and Torres vs. Seven. They're fast becoming my favorite characters. T'lorra is refreshingly unlike any X.O. I've seen on Trek before. Her desire for power is evident in every scene. And it should be interesting when Ro finally decides to take Stadi down a few pegs. She seems to be more than bordering on insubordination, what with calling him "Nevin" and demanding that he do this and that. On second viewing, I caught a little moment when she's snapping orders across the bridge and Ro looks peeved, but says nothing. I can't wait 'til he finally snaps and pulls a Janeway; "Stadi, my ready-room. NOW." On that note, Ro is definitely not rising to fill the role of Captain, and I don't mean that in a bad way. The emphasis on the fact that it's something he's just not ready for is going to be an interesting plotline. Especially as the need for a strong leader grows. Switching over to the Archeins, I'm very intrigued by the growing Caecus subplot. I want to see where his story is going. Sharon Savene continues to give a chilling performance as Majan Seram. She always looks as if she's bare inches from insanity. And John Whiting is reminding me gleefully of Grand Admiral Thrawn with his performance as General Morrigu. I love that he's not a "villain" so much as an "antagonist." I'm still wondering just what his angle is. The story was wonderful. Instead of trying to beat 'Iliad' with an action-packed, Odyssey vs. the entire Archein fleet + a planet eater, it was a refreshingly subdued tale of the crew's quest for survival. But man, they just cannot catch a break. The anti-matter is booby trapped, the duterium explodes, and the crew is on the verge of a meltdown. Especially Gillen. I feel so bad for his character. Chief Engineer is NOT a job for newbies.
Moving on, the special effects were very good, as always. I was a tad disappointed with the warp effect, as there seemed to be tiny stars passing over Odyssey's hull. But that's a minor quibble. The increasing battle-damage Odyssey is gaining adds a wonderfully realistic touch.
The music was excellent. I'm not sure of the name of the newcomer, but he's done a great job.
All-in-all, an easy 9.5 out of 10.
Keep up the awesome work, guys and gals.
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post Dec 6 2007, 06:55 PM
Post #12
The episode sounds great, too bad I missed the chat, have to wait till tomorrow :(
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post Dec 6 2007, 07:40 PM
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The New Ro seems to had a more military style to him. His voice seems more commanding, like a captain should have.


Overall great episode.
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post Dec 6 2007, 09:11 PM
Post #14
The episode sounds great, too bad I missed the chat, have to wait till tomorrow :(

same here.  RATS!
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post Dec 7 2007, 12:59 AM
Post #15
Beo did a good job; I'm sorry I didn't quite bring out the performance for Morrigu he'd hoped for.  I'll listen better next time, Beo.  Promise!

Fact is, pretty much everyone did well in this episode, including our guesting newsman as the Sickbay nurse.  I'm increasingly impressed with Matt; I want to be him when I grow up.

I thought the bickering was a little bit over the top, almost as if one lady or both were baiting him to step in as Captain.  Ro was quick to slap down T'Lorra in the first ep, at least in private (which is where that one needed to happen).  His two senior officers bickering in public is going to be bad for crew morale, and his failure to stop it is going to lead to the crew questioning his ability to lead.  When the time comes, if the situation permits, the dressing-down should NOT be in front of the crew, but they need to know that it happened.  Much like the much-mentioned "in my Ready Room.  Now." scene in Voyager.  One thing I learned is that a good manager gives the reprimands in private (when possible) and the praise in public.

I enjoyed watching the episode almost like it was someone else's:  I was on the edge of my seat in the right spots, et cetera.

On the technical side, I didn't like the tiny stars flying over the surface of the ship; they really messed with the size- and depth-perception of the scene.  But I loved the rain, which is hard to do realistically in CGI.  I was also impressed with the fact that even the small chain on Ro's earring stayed visible most the time; in the past, it was another victim of the greenscreen problems, but not any more, apparently.

As usual, I am impressed with how well everyone did, and humbled that I'm allowed to play on the same team.
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post Dec 7 2007, 07:12 AM
Post #16
<claps excitedly/> Another job well done! Another A!

Eh, before I get to what I liked, let me get my criticism out of the way:

Brandon McConnell: Sometimes his voice seemed to bottom out, like he was trying too hard to talk in a Grown-Up Man Voice (I noticed it most in his "Big Picture" talk with T'Lorra and his pep talk with Gillen.)

T'Lorra: Some of her lines in the Big Picture speech were too wordy. "It does not mean I am without feeling." "I am not without understanding."

Plot point: The Odyssey runs off while Morrigu's battle group has to fight their own automated defense system. How come Morrigu doesn't order pursuit? Sure, for all he knows they'll just cloak again, but he doesn't even try to go after them. It's not like the Archeins really want to stick around and destroy their own weapons. (I'm guessing the answer is: Because he'd be able to hunt them down and capture them.)

My nomination for *another* thing Morrigu learned from that battle: The Archeins need better child-proof locks on their automated defense systems. (I give Morrigu credit for having learned more than he's willing to tell Jenaan. Anyone else want to add to the list?)   

Minor, but it bugs me: Ro, ruminating with T'Lorra: "... to be able to look at the big picture; to write off one thing so others can survive ..." Given the conversational context of leaving/letting crewpeople die, Ro should've said "one person"---people aren't "things."

Enough of that. What I liked:

Brandon McConnell: Nice debut. Suddenly Ro's got a commanding presence! My favorite Ro line remains the one from the preview: "I've got a plan." There's something about McConnell's features that gives him this Buck Rogers/Captain Proton space hero vibe. It works for him. I liked watching him feel his way into the role of captain over the episode, from 6 weeks of recording "ship's log" entries in the conference room to finally entering the ready room.

T'Lorra and Stadi: I like the sparring. I also like how they're both kind of right: T'Lorra with free run of the Odyssey *is* a security nightmare but she *does* need that access ... and I liked where T'Lorra called Stadi on her "You could be spying for the Archeins!" slander.
Yes, Stadi could be more disciplined, and she's gonna have to work with T'Lorra ... but I can't help noticing that T'Lorra made Shanaar fiddle with the locks on the antimatter pods *after* commenting that she had a bad feeling ... and she was the one with the tricorder ...

Sharon Savene: Remains deliciously creepy. When she gets Morrigu's report and goes for Adam, I flinched. My favorite beat was actually earlier, when she talks to Morrigu for the first time and he tells her the automated defense systems were activated. She widens her eyes in a downright predatory manner. Then there's her on-a-dime demeanor changes with Caecus. "My *special* one" makes me shiver. Dangerous, scary ... uh, I mean, "clever and wise."

Caecus: Yeah, I'm curious about him too. I also have a couple guesses. It wasn't clear from Iliad that he was also a noble. (Though I should have guessed that Seram would settle for nothing less in a pet.) Adam plays a pet well um, acted well.

Morrigu: Remains smarter than he's letting on. Good to see that *someone* in the Archein power structure wants to know the nature of the enemy. Smart military leaders ask questions!

Wozniak! Firing the phasers and bobbing and weaving the ship! Awesome. Also, great special effects during the battle.

Favorite ship scene: The Odyssey's quick warp in-and-out. Sleek. (I'd love some ship-only desktop wallpaper!)

Hey, I'm still enjoying the story and I want to see more. :)

--Chris
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post Dec 7 2007, 12:57 PM
Post #17
I would love to say I loved this episode.  It started out great a good story was coming. But in the end the T'Lorra and Stadi constant bickering got to me.  It was to much.  If I was Ro I would have phasered them or beamed them out into space long ago.  And while I don't expect a captain to actually do that he should have nipped it in the bud sooner and coninued to do it.  It was fine at first but went on why to long.  Also it was completely unprofession for all involved, Stadi, T'Lorra and Ro. I watched it again this time fast forwarding through Stadi and T'Lorra bitchfesting and it was a much better show.

As for the new Ro,  Brandon did an excellent job.  Others have tried to say it, he is bringing a new element to the character.  He has more gravitas then Bobby's Ro.  It is good for the seriousness of the situation.

Sharon Savene was excellent as always,  I had a physicall reaction when she slapped Caecus. There is definetly a interesting back story there, I will be interesting to see how that develops.

Oh and I noticed in the opening shots of Odyessey you could still see damage on the ship from previous fights.  Excellent continuity!  I hated that Voyager nearly always look show room fresh.  I like knowing Odysseysing will be showing her war wounds.
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post Dec 7 2007, 02:11 PM
Post #18
Just a quick review from me now as Im pressed for time.

It seems to me that Beo definately knows the characters well, and his words helped the actors bring them to life. The plot was something that tackled their situation head on with immediacy instead of luxury, and i mirror Kuj's statement about Odyssey actually having war wounds, not a sudden fix-it moment!
The story enabled characters to grow, but not change too much too soon, such as Ro slowly accepting the captains chair amd the ready room by the end of the episode. I think that maybe Stadi is pissed that Ro didnt make her Exec over T'Lorra, hence the attitude, but she has got spunk, standing up to a woman almost twice her size!
The new dimension the story added to the Seram/Caecus relationship also spices up that dynamic, and the continuing look into Morrigu's mind, and his obvious doubts about Seram are just another tease about the mytserious Archeins

In short - i like!
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post Dec 7 2007, 02:22 PM
Post #19
I've already praised and raptured and so forth about how amazing and talented and clever Beo is but he wants it done here too so ... he's amazing and talented and clever :)

Very nice episode, brings us in to the tone of the series very nicely. Liked it very much. Everyone was on good form acty-wise. Except that GMTV person ... although the new edit made him look a little less of a twonk.

All very good :) Well done Beo and team and all.
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post Dec 7 2007, 06:02 PM
Post #20
i was unsure whether to give it an A or a B... but then figured my even looking at a B to be due to just how fabulous the pilot was... so i went with the A... i did think that the first episode was stronger, which was to be expected given that that was more a movie than an episode... but the difference didn't warrant dropping an entire grade in my view...

i really like the fact that the mission isn't turning into a pleasure cruise like 'that other series' and that the ship is already in a state of some disrepair...

overall a solid story well executed...

my one reservation regarding the story is the second get-away from the planet with the anti matter... perhaps it was just me, but that felt a little too easy, too slick... i think the archein ships should have taken a lot more of a pounding from the reprogrammed defense satellites before letting the odyssey slip away -- they didn't even seem to fire a single shot at odyssey after the satellites turned... the archeins looked rather ineffective, inflexible: when something went wrong with their plan they seemed unable to regroup and to just get on with the job... instead, three ships let one ship get away apparently without having suffered major damage... some of that was undoubtedly due to overconfidence... but even so, their training should have kicked in at some point... it didn't... i wonder if this is a taste of what odyssey can expect from the archeins... it's not enough to build large ships with powerful weapons... one also needs to know how to handle them in a fight... so far the archeins seem only to have been effective when they had overwhelming numerical superiority... perhaps 3:1 wasn't quite overwhelming enough for them... this might bode well for future hit and run attacks by odyssey, not just to gather supplies, but to disrupt attempts to rebuild the wormhole... or to capture an archein ship to study their technology... (okay, i got a little side tracked here... ;) )

and on a final note: when i read a few weeks ago that bobby rice was leaving i was aghast... i felt as if the new series, having just delivered a great premiere, all of a sudden found itself with it's head chopped off... i'm glad to say that brandon mcconnell took up the reigns without missing a step...
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