rank structure Options

[BlueCatShip]

Given that it's hundreds of years in the future, the Frontier Guard could have a very different system, loosely based on what, to them, would be ancient historical systems.

I note the UK Royal Navy uses "Lieutenant, Sub-Lieutenant, and Midshipman," where Sub-Lieutenant is an officer and Midshipman seems to be not quite a cadet and not quite an officer. That could be interesting for FG.

I looked into how US and UK Naval ranks were structured during the Napoleonic era, such as in the Horatio Hornblower and Master and Commander / Aubrey-Maturin books.

They had Admirals and Commodores as flag officers commanding fleets or bases, Captains or Commanders could captain any ship, though any officer rank might captain a ship. Lieutenants were generally the executive officers and there were First, Second, and Third Lieutenants' positions (not ranks) one for each watch. There wasn't a very complex rank system, as even large ships had few officers. Midshipmen were apprentice or student officers in training aboard ship. In that time, and up until shortly before the Civil War in America, Midshipmen could be anywhere from 12 or 13 up through 18 or older, depending on when they were enrolled and when they passed their Lieutenant's exam to become a full officer. Instead of Petty Officers, there were Warrant Officers. Then there were ordinary Seamen. Apparently, there was some way of distinguishing an experienced hand from a new recruit. There were also children for deck hands, gun crews (powder monkeys) and cabin boys, often poor or orphaned kids, and those could be 6 to 12 or older. Children worked and were expected to be responsible... or they were punished. The adults could be punished too. So any given ship would have children, teenagers, and adults, all males, in what we'd think of as very poor conditions for food, hygiene, and privacy, all serving together. The kids and teens were raised to work as part of the crew. One of the major differences was that crewmen could be pressed into service, impressed, shanghaied. A ship in need of crew could simply come into port and order some man or boy into naval service as crewmen, either ordered or conned into it or outright abducted, and it was legal and ordinary business to do so. Officers or crew from civilian ships/boats could also be inducted into service. And you thought the friendly neighborhood recruitment office or that draft registration notice was rough! Civilian ships and boats were run similarly. Discipline was barbaric by our standards. Army commissions could be bought. Yes, bought, if your family was wealthy or noble enough. Apparently, Navy commissions were more earned; even a noble or a professional (doctor, lawyer, etc.) or a wealthy merchant family still had to have their sons go through as Midshipmen to learn how to sail and serve as a Naval officer, before passing an exam to become an officer.

I'm mentioning that, not to praise it, but because it's an entirely different cultural standard, and because that provides a different take on how things might be run in the future in space colonization, and because there are some interesting possibilities for plots there.

I've been listening to some of those old radio sci-fi serials on the X-Minus One podcast and a couple of others, including some old Tom Corbett radio shows.

What's interesting from those, and what was puzzling to me at first, is that they were geared mostly at juveniles (kids and teens) and young adults, but the content was more mature in concepts and breadth and occasional scariness than what's usually given to a younger audience today. It took me awhile to figure out the difference. The youth back then were expected to be responsible, to work at school and at home or in the neighborhood, whether that was on a farm or ranch or in town. They were expected to be more mature, and expected to be capable of good English and math and other subjects, not just the three R's.

They were also expected not to date until around late high school, and for goodness sakes, not to "get fresh" or (gasp) know about or try out anything... well, one doesn't talk about such things, but young Mabel down the street had to go see her Aunt Edna after she and that boy....

In other words, those old-time radio shows, science fiction and fantasy for kids and teens and young adults, were intended for an audience who were more mature and responsible and well educated. The expectation was still there that anyone of school age could hold down a responsible task and help the family or community to prosper.

That's another main point, it seems to me, for what might be different in future space colonization.

-- As far as the cadets and teachers and officers go, the Frontier Guard and the society they come from could be very different from ours. So far, the show hasn't shown a lot of what makes them different.

[admiralrea]

here's my idea

officers[
ensign
lt.ensign
lieutenant
lt.captain
captain
major
major colonel
colonel
lt.commander
commander
flag officers

rear general
vice general
general
fleet general
grand general
grand admiral
frontier guard Commander

what do you think?

This post has been edited by admiralrea: Apr 6 2010, 08:34 AM

[CDR_DAXIAN]

how about this for rank structure:

Cadet ranks

Cadet I-class

Cadet-II

cadet III-class

Cadet IV-class

Non-Commissioned Officers

Petty Officer I-class

Petty Officer II-class

Petty Officer III-class

Chief Petty Officer

Master Chief Petty officer

Commissioned officers

Ensign

Sub-Lieutenant

Lieutenant

Major

Colonel

Lieutenant-Commander

Commander

Flag Officers

Commodore

Rear Admiral

Forward Admiral

Fleet Admiral

Frontier Guardian

CDR_DAXIAN

This post has been edited by CDR_DAXIAN: Jul 29 2010, 04:26 PM

[Belgarion]

The classes should be the other way around.

[CDR_DAXIAN]

oops

[CDR_DAXIAN]

Cadet ranks

Cadet IV-class

Cadet-III-class

cadet II-class

Cadet I-class

Non-Commissioned Officers

Petty Officer I-class

Petty Officer II-class

Petty Officer III-class

Chief Petty Officer

Master Chief Petty officer

Commissioned officers

Ensign

Sub-Lieutenant

Lieutenant

Major

Colonel

Lieutenant-Commander

Commander

Flag Officers

Commodore

Rear Admiral

Forward Admiral

Fleet Admiral

Frontier Guardian

This post has been edited by CDR_DAXIAN: Jul 30 2010, 12:18 PM

[Belgarion]

YAY!!!

[sffilk]

Uh, aren't you forgetting Captain between Commander and Commodore?

[Belgarion]

Why?

Commander pretty much says it all. The Romulans only use Commander.

[CDR_DAXIAN]

from what I've seen FG uses a mix of army and navy rank. Like Battlestar Galactica Plus: captain and commander just puts an earthquake on who's got more authority, i think it mixes you up

i mean think of it, what do you think]

"the captain's superior officer: commander -------"

now if you think navy: that's the wrong way

if you think army, there's no reference.

that's why i think it screws you up.

CDR_DAXIAN

This post has been edited by CDR_DAXIAN: Aug 24 2010, 08:17 AM

[Saharda]

Rank has two meanings, purely symbolic, and physical. A baron could be a baron because they run a plot of land called a barony, or they could be one because they are merely being honored with a traditional rank.

In FG you can have ranks based upon ancient traditions all you like, and that is fine. You could also have ranks with specific meaning.

Ignoring troops, soldiers, and ground units as somehting for other branches to deal with what do we actually need to think about with space rankings? You have base rankings and ship rankings.

Bases can be deep space: not near a star system (Not related to the star trek DS stations.) Strategic: in a place of military importance. Support: in a place of indirect military importance. or Civilian: Important, but not military.

The command structure of such bases could, hypothetically, be organized arround practicality. If you are in charge of a minor base you are ranked, X. If you are in charge of a Major base you are ranked Y. If you are a regional commander in charge of several bases you are ranked z.

Similarly ships might have a ranking related to their importance and use. In most SF settings you have large slow moving "capital" ships, or large numbers of fast moving "Fighter" ships. Several fighters (rank A) might serve under a wing commander (Rank B). Wing commanders, one or several, answer to the commander of a larger ship or a base (Rank C). Several capital ships serve a regional or fleet commander (Rank D)

Now within each ship or each base there are also different ranks. Some military and some civilian. A base in a merchant sector might have an office for the guy in charge of mercantile relations. A base that is only important as a strike point on two different sectors might have a sector lead for each important sector. A production base might have a commander in charge of each type of production.




What I am getting at here is that ranks can be simple simbols of office, or they might be something more. They might have specific meaning.

[CDR_DAXIAN]

that's a little too many ranks to remember saharda

three different ranks, and starbases alone?

nice idea, but i think that's a little too many for me

This post has been edited by CDR_DAXIAN: Sep 9 2010, 05:10 AM

[CDR_DAXIAN]

to add to description to my ranking structure:

Cadet ranks

Cadet IV-class: one vertical pip

Cadet-III-class: two vertical pips

cadet II-class: three vertical pips

Cadet I-class: four vertical pips

Non-Commissioned Officers

Petty Officer III-class: one horizontal bar

Petty Officer II-class: two horizontal bars

Petty Officer II-class: three horizontal bars

Chief Petty Officer: three horizontal bars split by one vertical in center

Master Chief Petty officer: three horizontal bars split by two vertical in center

Commissioned officers

Ensign: one bar

Sub-Lieutenant: one and a half bars

Lieutenant: two bars

Major: three bars

Colonel: four bars

Lieutenant-Commander: four and a half bars

Commander: five bars

Flag Officers

Commodore: two vertical one horizontal bar

Rear Admiral: two vertical and two horizontal bars

Forward Admiral: two vertical three horizontal bars

Fleet Admiral: four vertical and three horizontal bars

Frontier Guardian: eight point star (both sides of collar)

This post has been edited by CDR_DAXIAN: Sep 16 2010, 05:46 PM